Domspeak Forums Discussions Lobby Sadomasochism in History

A friend of mine and I were talking about Julius Caesar. He pointed out how he captured an enemy and kept him enslaved. He put him in a cage, paraded him through town and then left him in the public square. People passing by would laugh at him.

Then, think about the equipment that is standard in modern day dungeons. It all has historical roots. We should be horrified by the origins. Yet, we've found a way to make it fun. We've always been kinky, haven't we?

I know people who would line up for being paraded through town in a cage, assuming they could be naked.

Exact historical parallels for use in sessions are problematic for me. The year I had my first session, 1974, I took a film appreciation in college and part of the curriculum was to see a new movie, "The Night Porter," starring Dirk Bogarde and Charlotte Rampling, a controversial film then and now. It is set in Vienna in 1957, and focuses on the sadomasochistic relationship between a former Nazi concentration camp officer (Bogarde) and one of his inmates (Rampling). I thought it was a lousy movie and very disturbing. It did NOT inspire me to have my first session. In the 1970s into the '80s ads featured in Screw Magazine and other publications had a few Mistresses that were in leather SS outfits (or close to it), disturbed me... it was recent history, 29 years after the end of WWII. In my sessions I want to escape reality, specifically being dominated by a gorgeous Amazon woman who has captured Tarzan, or some other male jungle character, and used for Her entertainment, like cheap R-rated "B movies" from the 1950s or beyond. NOT the harsh reality of history.

Yes, people have always been kinky. We've found a better way to apply it over time. The man Caesar captured wasn't able to negotiate limits or use a safe word.

Both slavery (domination) and torture (sadism) got started in the Neolithic. However they were both very nonconsensual. The very idea that they should in any way be contingent upon consent would be incomprehensible to the practitioners. Now there is no real evidence of masochism until the 17th century where a single novel makes reference to flogging as an erotic activity (most historians do not regard the medieval flagellants as true masochists). In the 18th century there are several more books such as the notorious Fanny Hill. When we get to the middle of the 19th century there is a veritable explosion of interest in Britain. Now submission can be very subtle and nuanced so it is harder to pin down but there is no clear cut evidence of it starting much sooner than masochism.

Did you happen to catch the HBO series Rome?

Augustus was negotiating with his fiance in an arrainged political marriage.

"I shall beat you occasionaly with my hand or a small whip. Not because you have displeased me, but because it exites me sexually."

I saw that. My wife and I got a chuckle out of it.

Hey, I'm a new member and want to say hello to you all.

I'm also a History teacher in my daily life and think I can add something to help you with this topic. A human being (homo sapiens sapiens) from 10k years ago and one from now are made on the same constitutions, including capability of imagination.

Of course, if we take fetishes like nylons or vinyl, it would be impossible to exist before these materials were invented. But feet fetish, whipping and slave-treating are far more debatable as relations of power always permeated all societies. It is easy to understand then that something that was not ''fitted'' for daylight would always be kept as a secret. It makes historians work on BDSM topic very much harder. We cant forget also that there is a pyramid of interests in human primal life, as surviving and eating being the basis of it. For other priorities as BDSM to flourish, it would be in societies where most of basic needs were, at least, assured until certain points, like ancient Rome, for example.

On other side, after Illuminism, many ideas started to emerge and circulate throughtout Europe and western culture. What I can say after years of studying is that there is an enormous chance of BDSM practices happening in all the previous centuries, but is after the sexual revolution in XX Century that it became more and more diverse.

Another point: If we knew what we liked since we were kids and for no reason (I'm using now my own personal example, I always knew I loved ballbusting, even before the internet, when I thought I was the only person on Earth to enjoy it) the most probably hypothesis is that people before us did the same. Here are some of my guesses on people I believe enjoyed BDSM: Roman politics and powerful people, italian renaissance, european nobility on medieval and modern times, Victorian era rich people and industrialists and, of course, rock n'roll people after the 70s. Most of them are people of power, I know, but I believe they influenced the other layers. Sorry for the long thesis.

Welcome and thanks for sharing your insight.
Unfortunately, there are only a handful of people who use this forum since its founder, Lady Cheyenne, disappeared.